« January 2011 | Main | March 2011 »

Interview with Jamie Turner, Author of How To Make Money with Social Media


Business has always been organized around people. However, in the last several decades, with the onset of mass marketing and global commerce, somehow too many marketers lost sight of that truism.  It was too easy and at the same time too difficult to remember that business begins with the personal. 

In the past decade, along came the internet and with that new ways to connect with customers in a digital environment. And it was a very good thing.

However, the cries from the C-Suite often were not where's the beef, but where's the $$? My friend Jamie Turner wrote a bout that addresses that issue. In our interview I challenged him to answer his own question .. "How do you make money with social media?" 

How to make money with social media Jamie Turner is the Chief Content Officer for the 60 Second Marketer, the online magazine of BKV Digital and Direct Response. He is also the co-author of How to Make Money with Social Media, which is available at fine bookstores (and a few not-so-fine bookstores) everywhere. @60secondtweets

Diva Marketing/Toby: Before we dive into this interview, let’s set the stage with a question I often ask, “What does social media mean to you?”

Jamie Turner: Several years ago, someone I respect a great deal named Toby Bloomberg introduced me to social media. One of the first things she said to me was that social media was about having a conversation. I’ve always been grateful for the insight you provided me from the very start.

That said, if you’re a business, social media isn’t just about a conversation – it’s also about turning that conversation into revenue. After all, businesses don’t do social media to be social – they do social media to make money. That’s something that’s overlooked way too frequently.

Diva Marketing/Toby: Oh, blush .. and look where you are now .. a famous author! But Jamie, there are zillions of books about social media with more published every second, or so it seems. Why this book? What was special about your vision that the reader would take away from the read? 

Jamie Turner: This is one of the few books out there that provides a step-by-step roadmap on how to set up a social media campaign so that it generates a return on investment. Most of the other books on social media are just about the conversation. This one is about turning the conversation into revenue.

Diva Marketing/Toby: The title of your book is captivating. It s indeed the $10 million dollar question! So, Jamie let’s cut to the chase .. what is the insider’s secret on using social media to make money?

Jamie Turner: Okay, first the bad news. If you’re going to make money with social media, you’re going to have to know math. That was a surprise to me when I first started writing the book, but the math is relatively simple once you get the hang of it.

The math starts with a direct response formula called Customer Lifetime Value (CLV). In its simplest form, CLV is the amount of revenue a typical customer generates for your business over the course of their engagement with your brand.

So, if you’re a lawn care company and the typical customer is generating $80/month and stays with you an average of 3 years, then your CLV is $2,880. Once you know your Customer Lifetime Value, you can then calculate how much you’d be willing to spend to acquire a customer, which is called your Cost Per Sale (CPS).

In most cases, Cost Per Sale is 10% of your Customer Lifetime Value. In the case of the lawncare company, the Cost Per Sale would be $280. In other words, you’d be willing to invest $280 to acquire a customer that will generate $2,880 for your company during their engagement with your brand.

Once you’ve established your Customer Lifetime Value and once you know your Cost Per Sale, then you can use those figures to help calculate the ROI of your social media campaign.

For example, going back to the lawn care company, you might spend $280,000 on an extensive social media campaign that includes YouTube videos, Facebook promotions, Twitter updates, LinkedIn updates, e-newsletters and other social media tools. But, if that $280,000 generates 1,000 new customers, then you know your Cost Per Sale was $280, which works out perfectly.

It sounds complex the first time you come across the formulas. But if you understand Customer Lifetime Value and Cost Per Sale, you’re well on your way to making money with social media.

Diva Marketing/Toby: In your book you compare a successful social media to that of a successful marriage built on great mutual communication. I get the communication part, but how does that really play out in the social web?

Jamie Turner: When I first started in social media many years ago, I thought you could just do it in 15 minutes a day, so I’d crank up my computer in the morning, spend 15 minutes on Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, etc. and then sit back and wait. And wait. And wait.

Unfortunately, nothing happened. Which is when I shifted over to an ongoing conversation during the entire course of the day.

Like any good relationship, a social media relationship has to be ongoing. You can’t have a successful marriage in 15 minutes a day. Nor can you have a successful social media campaign.

Diva Marketing/Toby: One of the most allusive aspects of a social media strategy has always been aligning it with Return On Investment. For some people ROI translates only to sales dollars. For other people ROI can mean a set of metrics that support a strategy’s goals. Which camp are you in and why?

Jamie Turner: That’s a good question. I’m definitely in the ROI camp. After all, in this day and age, the Chief Financial Officer wants to see specific results for their investment. When you use the formulas outlined above and covered in detail in the book, you can track your ROI and show the CFO that for every $1 invested in social media, it generated $10 or more in revenue.

Diva Marketing/Toby: Let’s wrap this by playing “what if.” What if a client came to you to create the ultimate social media initiative that would lead to making the cash register sing. How would go about creating that program?

Jamie Turner: I would do what Dell does and what we do here at BKV. That is, I’d make sure that every social media channel has a link that drives through to a landing page on our website. In Dell’s case, that landing page sells their products directly via e-commerce. In BKV’s case (we’re an ad agency), we have to track downloads of our white papers, then re-market to those prospects to see if we can turn them into customers.

The bottom line is that it’s all track-able. As such, we’re able to show a return-on-investment. So, in a nutshell, the ultimate social media initiative is one that can be tracked and measured on an ROI basis.

Blogger Disclaimer: Jamie kindly comped me a copy of his book.

Enhanced by Zemanta

34 Hot Tips on Increasing Facebook Followers (or Likes) From AMA Boot Camp Marketers


AMA Social Media B2B BootCamp image In 2004, the American Marketing Association asked to develop a workshop on blogs. Blogs: Marketing Beyond The Website, was an amazing experience. We took that Hot Topic program to 6 major markets in 10-months. Along the way, I developed a passion for helping people understand that 1st blogs, and now social media, is a credible and critical part of a marketing strategy.

Seven years later, I'm still facilitating training for AMA, as well as, other organizations and companies. I believe even more strongly that social media helps develop & nurture stronger real relationships between customers/prospects/other stakeholders and the people within the organization.

If you develop for the the long-term, you gain insights that can be used to increase bottom-line profits.

Along the way, I've conducted workshops for hundreds of people all over the country. Very nice people. Very smart marketers. Recently, I had the pleasure of working with the AMA Las Vegas Chapter to present a 1.5 day intensive boot camp on using social media in a business-to-business environment. 

Something special happened during our time together. We created a "social media" experience offline. People shared experiences (personal and business) and in doing so we learned from and with each other. We tackled many issues including -- How to increase your Facebook following. The participants generously agreed to share the results of our brainstorming. 

34 Tips On How To Increase Your Facebook Following

Create Awareness .. they won't come unless you tell them

1. Include in email newsletters. Write a special introduction article. Include links on all eZines. 

2. Add to all employees' eMail signatures

3. Add to all employees' business cards

4. Add to website in 2 locations. Above the "fold" with bold icons and on the footer which runs across the entire site.

5. Send eMails to people not part of eMail data base.

6. Add the URL to All traditional collatoral materials

7. Add the ULR all advertisements

8. If you run broadcast ads mention the url .. don't just say,"Like us on Facebook."

9. Use other social networks to send people to your Facebook page. Use Twitter to direct to an expanded conversation.

10. Install Facebook "like" box on your website and/or blog.

11. Add link to your LinkedIn page

12. Use your unique Facebook URL. Note: you need 25 "likes"

13. Add a "like" button to your blog posts

Content Matters .. make sure it is more selfless than selfish 

Sidebar: Thanks to WIlliam Crozen for the term selfless content. 

14. Create "selfless" or "what's in it for me" content. Information about the brand and company take 2nd place.

15. Develop unique "platform appropriate" content. 

16. Foster partnerships among clients and thought leaders 

17. Invite your community to join in an extended discussion.

18. Reach out to indivduals you know who would be interested in specific conversations.

19. "Talk" to people don't "message me"

20. Include "Facebook only" content that is not Tweeted or on other of your digital properties

21. Include videos and photos

22. Explore contests or give aways. 

23. Step out from behind the logo and talk people-to-people

24. Support a nonprofit

Think Outside The Box .. if you position this as a way to build your learnings it's easier to take a risk or two. 

25. Add a "buck slip" with invoices if paper or a link if eMail

26. At your next conference bring a laptop and show the site

27. Explore using QR codes

28. Create a landing page 

29. Analyze metrics

30. Consider running targeted Facebook ads

31. Actively participate in Facebook discussions e.g., comment, like .. friends make friends

32. Don't forget to participate on your own page!

33. Add a tab to collect opt-in eMail addresses

34. Include the url in the bottom right corner of every slide that you develop for presentations and speeches

Toss of a pink boa to the awesome AMA Las Vegas B2B Social Media Chapter and workshop participants Pink boa

@forestersusdiv @nathan_casper @pinkjeeptours @naescorp @profcharlotte @noblestudios @lindsayalford @inthezone23 @skyhighmktg @AMALV

Alan Fox, Independent Order of Forester . Nathan Casper, Shift4 Corporation . Lindsay Alford, Noble Studios . Charlotte Allen, SFASU . Kathyrn Loos & Michael Markvosky, Haws Corporation . Erin Reed, Crowe Hortwath . Brittany Smith, Pink JeepsSara Ure, Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville . William Crozen, ModernLV . Josh Kozinski, Sky High Marketing

What are your hot tips on how to increase your Facebook following. Please drop your insights in the comment box below .. lets grow this list and continuing the learning. 

Toss of a pink boa to Lya Sorano forthe edit help.

How Do You Build B2B Relationships Using Social Media?


The miracle is this: the more we share the more we have. Leonard  Nimoy

Crowd source
One Tip Crowd Sourced Question

No one holds all the answers. Especially in social media marketing, or as some people refer to this brave new digital word as, new media. When you think of it how could she?

The tools like Twitter, Facebook, and geo location services such as Foursquare are nano seconds old. "Traditional" social platforms such as blogs, podcasts and video are two nano seconds old. Marketers are still learning how to talk to people without the benefit of their brand veils. 

I thought it would be interesting to crowd source a series of  "How do you do it .. 1 tip question posts." I reached into my social networks for answers.

People, with diverse backgrounds and experiences, generously shared their insights. The result is an invaluable learning for us all. Toss of a pink boa to everyone who is keeping the spirit of social media alive .. sharing knowledge.

How Do You Build B2B Relationships Using Social Media?

Add value through insights and content. That's how a good b2b relationship could start. - Cheers Rajesh Lalwani BlogWorks @rajeshlalwani

Whether for a business or an individual, powerful relationships are formed when social media is used to transform lives, whether by being responsive, connecting people, providing better service, creating better value or just by making someone smile. "What are you doing to make my life better via social media?" - Arun Rajagopal ArunRajagopal @arun4

Stop thinking of it as A "social media relationship" -- it's just a relationship, with a real person, who wants attention and appreciation. - Andy Sernovitz, author Word of Mouth Marketing Blog: Damm I Wish I Thought of That @andysernovitz

Be genuine and understand why you are talking to that particular person understand ones own business before you enrage with others Get a grip on what mediums one is using. - Anon

Consistency and persistence. Too many times, in the digital world, people are so hot and heavy in the beginning, then it all trails off like Summer Camp -- you fall madly in love and promise to keep in touch forever and then time passes. The real digital relationship honors go to the company that can leverage the CRM -- someone who can remember anniversaries and birthdays, if you will. Also, the relationships that are being constantly mined and "exploited" versus the ones that are kept aside like wine: in the cold for years.

In networking, there's a difference between collecting people and building relationships. If I met a mommy blogger and we hit it off, I am not going to say, "I have her in my pocket but I am not going to leverage this until the time is right and I have an important story."

That's true exploitation. That's a parasitic relationship. Intimacy is symbiotic. Intimacy is a muscle that must be exercised.

Intimacy doesn't just mean that if I buy you a steak at Morton's you're going to owe me a story.

Also, one must also remember that most digital relationships don't need to be intimate and can simply be transactional. That in order for people to really be able to connect, you need to connect lightly or hard.

Anyway, the biggest mistake that most people in the digital space make is not to "use" each other shamelessly... 

Generally speaking, this can't be done in-authentically. Either way, you need to find something you love about that person, no matter how small, and try to make the relationship about that real thing -- and it can be just the meta thing of social media.

Oh, and this all comes down to the fact that people love doing favors. It is actually rude not to ask the people around you for help, for love, for attention, and for a favor.

Oddly, people tend to love each other more the more they feel beholden, connected, and in each-other's debt.

I meet too many people who have a bunch of A-list bloggers they have met, they have the card for, but they never connect to them because they're holding off until they need something very badly -- sort of like a safety net. 

Like 11th hour conversions, they never tend to work out the way you would expect them to -- and generally fail. Who would want to fall into a rotten safety net? - Chris Abraham Abraham Harrison

Be the real and authentic you. To nurture and develop trusting relationships, a person has to be authentically themselves, This includes being ethical and honest in everything they say and post on social media, just as an every other aspect of your life and business. - Wayne Hurlbert Business World @waynehurlbert

Give consideration to the differences in HOW one can connect and why different strategies are necessary . This content is copyrighted by  - fjk @vitalingus   

Share what you admire most about their business in general, or their latest news. Use details when possible, not just an overall "like." They'll feel appreciated for their thoughtful strategy and work and they will appreciate you for it. - Melanie Notkin Savvy Auntie @SavvyAuntie http://savvyauntie.com

Use what I refer to as the "cord of three strands" principle -- on an individual basis, connect with another person on LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter. That way, you get to see their business side, personal side and what they're thinking about at a given moment.  – Anon

Use social media to stay top of mind by creating conversation around what your B2B client is interested in - without trying to sell! - Becky Carroll Customers Rock @bcarroll7

Do your research and find out where your interests intersect. - Bonnie Sahin Bonnies On It @Bsashin www.bonniesonit.com

Make them laugh. – Jackie Schklar Funny Not Slutty @funnynotslutty

Understand the power of the "Re" --- Retweet, repost, share, blog about others businesses to demonstrate that you follow and care about the other businesses news, events, progress, etc. Be sure to take the time to tailor your "Re" to match your customer/reader's interests as well as your business goals. It demonstrates that you read and thought about it. –

.. and my thoughts. Creating relationships in the digital world is really no different than in the offline world. Good ones take time to build. My 3 of 1 tips: 1. Provide selfless content that speaks to the needs of your comunity and not your brand. 2. Keep in touch with an @ tweet, comment or status up. 3. Give a little of your none business self. - Toby Bloomberg Diva Markering @tobydiva

Let's keep the leanings growing. How do you create B2B relationships using social media? Plese share your insights in the comments. 

 Tip Crowd Sourced Question Series

How do you take the fear factor out of social media?

How do you put soul into your blog posts?

Is social media a strategy or a tactic?

What are your scariest thoughts about social media?

Diva Marketing Blog Acquired .. Almost! Part I


Ppt 2a diva marketing acquire
And so began a conversation with the CEO of a large (to be anon) portal. It's the dream of many bloggers: to be acquired by a platform viewed by millions, to be compensated for their work and as just as much, to be acknowledged for their work.
Girlfriend, I must admit it is a heady experience to be singled out from all the millions of marketing blogs to swim with the big fish. Okay to be totally transparent the deal was not even a smidgen of the AOL Huffington Post deal. But I rather thought you'd  assumed that one! 

As I do so often, I want to share my story and learnings with y'all. I had not a clue what this road would look like or where it would lead. Perhaps when there's a knock on your virtual door you'll have an idea what to expect.

My goals for Diva Marketing were never to monetize. Notice the lack of ads or affinity links. The purpose always has been to provide a place where we can explore how marketers can use first blogs, and now social media to build stronger brands and customer relationships. By providing that type of content and doing things a little differently, my own reputation and credibility in the social media industry would be established. Diva Marketing maybe a wee blog but I'm proud to say it has street cred. 

I said to The X Man - Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world she walks into mine. ~ oops wrong movie! I think it went more like .. Why Diva Marketing?

The X Man told me he wanted to add a blog with a marketing focus and Diva Marketing was "a good fit" to build out his growing blog network. He said nice things about my reputation and what I brought to the table.

The X Man talked about about how this acquisition would increase my visibility and present opportunities to grow my consulting company. He talked about a link on the "new Diva Marketing blog" back to my website. All good.

What really sold me was the chance to grow Diva Marketing into a larger brand. That's something I've always wanted to do. Who knows where things could go with some extra resources to invest in the brand. The X Man even talked about possible brand extension in terms of events. 

So I put on my  red Manolo Blahnik's and took a step onto the yellow brick road to the Emerald City of Blogs where there would be boas for everyone, treats for Maxie and his friends, conferences with special Diva Tinis. Well .. probably not but one has to dream Big.  Yellow brick road

The X Man asked about my host (Typepad), my traffic, my revenue stream. I did my due diligence too. I talked to several people in his company and my trusted advisers.

Lessons Learned: The insights and support from advisers is invaluable. Don't go it alone if you've never been down this road before; the yellow brick road is unevenly paved and it's easy to trip over your pink boa.

In all seriousness, it was a big decision for me. Diva Marketing turns 7 in May. In the virtual pages of this site are hundreds of posts about blogging, social media, branding, strategy, interviews, research. And a few original concepts like the corner grocery store relationships and in the moment marketing.

Selling my 7 years of intellectual capital was not too difficult to justify. More of a challenge was the decision to give up a brand that been interwoven into my personal brand identity.  

The bling was shiny. The opportunities were exciting. I thought it might be the right time to go in a new direction. 

Continued on Part II

Diva Marketing Blog Acquired .. Almost! Part II


Continuted from Part I

To sell Diva Marketing Or not to sell Diva Marketing. The bling was shiny. The opportunities were exciting. I thought it might be the right time to go in a new direction. 

While the bling might have been shiny the opening offer was quite a bit lower than I'd imagined. Of course one always thinks their bebe is the most beautiful and worth the Hope Diamond or at least a closet filled with Jimmy Choos. By the way, did you know that Jimmy Choo oganized a Foursquare scavenger hunt in London last year? But I digress. 

Valuating Diva Marketing was a challenge for me. How much is a blog worth? For The X Man traffic was the most important element. Unlike traditional publishers who place a premium on your network, The X Man never asked about RSS subscriptions or my network reach. 

I countered his offer. He came back with some more bling. Not as much as I would have liked but more interesting. After many eMails and behind the scenes work I thought we were at the end of the yellow brick blogosphere road and the doors of the Emerald City were close to opening. For sale by owner

The doors didn't open. The deal didn't go through. That's okay. When I ask why, they chose not to go forward The X Man sent this eMail.

Email 9a diva marketing acquire
A little confusing considering the opening, but ...  

Lessons Learned: If you want to sell your blog host on your own site. 

Lessons learned: For most deals,traffic counts as a prime means of valuation. 

Secret Sauce For Traffic. Everyone who's been in this business for more than 30 seconds knows the secret sauce for traffic is a function of the number of times you posts. Throw in a little SEO and you've got N-U-M-B-E-R-S. If your goal is to sell your blog that may be enough. However, if your goal is to build relationships, establish credibility, service your customers, traffic may not be your silver bullet.

As for The X Man. I gave him some advice on how make his tweets more effective .. add links. Perhaps he's now counting his Twitter Followers. 

As for Diva Marketing. Perhaps a partnership with a brand that wants to reach a targeted community might be a better fit. Open to possibilities. Who knows where the yellow brick road of the blogosphere will lead?

Pink boa At the end of the day it sure was nice to be wanted.  A toss of a pink boa to Diva Marketing!

Who Is Reading Your Blog May Be A Delightful Surprise


Dandelion_seeds_being_blown The very smart Nancy White, Full Circle, once told me .. when you send your blog or community site into social cyber space it's never totally yours alone again. Girlfriend, it doesn't matter if you're writing on social media topics, manufacturing equipment or dirty martinis (3 olives please!).

However, if you're very lucky sometimes the people who "read" you and become part of your digital world are a delightful surprise. That's exactly what happened to Diva Marketing.

I write about social media marketing, how it impacts branding and can be used to build stronger relationships. As expected marketers pop by and people who are curious about new media. The creative elements and tonality attract women and men who want their learnings served up with a little fun and a dash of irreverence. 

The segment that was delightful surprise is young college women. How do I know? Found reviews and mentions about Diva Marketing from following links in from my stats. 

Recently, Amanda Schwartz, Barnard College '13 reached out and asked if I would write something for Barnard College of Columbia University's newspaper The Bulletin " .. about social media and its role in the job search process... I was honored.

By the way, Amanda could give some PR pros a lesson or two in how to approach bloggers. She was respectful, identified who she was, detailed what she wanted and most of all her request was relevant to what I do; and she even followed-up with a thank you. Toss of a pink boa to you Amanda!  Here's what I sent her written with a dash of Diva style .. of course.

In today's world, as well as tomorrow's, your digital image is becoming as important as your offline style.  Not only for your friends but for prospective employers and mentors. Why not take advantage of social networks and blogs to build relationships beyond your best friends or your latest crush?


A presence on LinkedIn or a blog, that profiles your talents and passions, can supplment an interview. It can also give you an advantage if a prospective company chooses to research a candidate even before she steps through the door. 


Keep in mind that just like the shoes you choose to wear, from cute boots to fun flip flops Filp flops summer
, how you develop your "digital personal brand" sends a message too. The language you use, the story you tell, the images you include are all are pieces of your online puzzle. Remember that Google (and other search engines) have long memories so create for the long-term.


Although social media offers an exciting way to showcase your talents and experiences eventually you'll take online offline. The personae that you develop must authentically represent "you." 


Best of luck in your career adventures.



@tobydiva Diva Marketing

Lesson Learned: Do more than look at the numbers of your analytics .. follow the links of referrals.

What have been some of "delightful surprise" segments of your community?